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Post by jumpngeorge on Feb 1, 2024 17:40:29 GMT
Let me preface this by saying that role here at Mocksports is to come up with wild ideas that no one likes. How about this one…
Our original auctions stay the same… keepers, toppers, player pool. This establishes our active rosters. On a second night, we have a 28 round reserve draft. The player pool in this draft will be all undrafted major leaguers and minor league players. I know you guys probably hate the idea of a second night, but I know from Gibson that could easily knock out a 28 round draft in an hour and half.
Now with 50 man rosters, we limit in season player acquisitions. Each manager will structure his reserve to take care of any injuries that happen during the regular season . Each manager can have as many minor league players as wants with the understanding that, if he gets too many on his roster, he might not be able to replace an injured player. Maybe we play the whole season with September rules where players can be reserved without reason and let each owner enter their own transactions in OnRoto
I think we should also think about adding Japanese players who may be posted to the farm draft.
In ancient times I think we had a limit on waive/ claim transactions. I think you have one if we did this, to keep folks from drafting all minor leaguers in the reserves.
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Post by geoflin on Feb 2, 2024 14:51:46 GMT
Hard no to the above
Edit - It's fine with me if other people want to do this. I'm personally not interested.
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Post by shoelessjoe on Feb 2, 2024 16:50:59 GMT
You seem deeply committed to the past with no latitude for change, Geoff, but George's proposal has a great deal of merit. My thoughts on another string here regarding expansion of farm team rosters and replacement of promoted/injured/arrested minor leaguers will not be repeated. However, expanding the Mock baseball world has the potential for attracting new, knowledgeable, competitive members. What George proposes is selecting a team comprised of 50 MLB players and minor-league players which would modestly mirror a MLB franchise, allowing for substitutions, promotions and demotions at an owner's whim. In my mind, it would be mandatory to have at least a fully active MLB roster to compete, curbing the urge to sandbag. Depending on the number of "counting" players, the remainder of the roster would be comprised of MLB and minor-league players, as many as 27 if we adhered to the current 23. Geoff, you have referenced "top 100" as if that was the magic number, but there are hundreds of quality minor league players, some who haven't had sufficient experience to attract consideration for top 100. Open your mind to the possibility that this could make Mock leagues more appealing to those in the group and those who could be.
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Post by geoflin on Feb 2, 2024 17:40:39 GMT
My opposition isn't to the idea of change or necessarily to this proposed change, it is to the additional time commitment involved. I now have 5 teams because I've added one each of the past 2 years in order to fill leagues lacking enough owners. I'm also LA for 2 leagues. I just don't have the time for 5 more nights of drafting and the extra work involved. As you can see from my support of Rick's proposal to keep our current minor league rosters full throughout the year I'm not opposed to change itself.
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Post by waters96 on Feb 2, 2024 18:31:20 GMT
My opposition isn't to the idea of change or necessarily to this proposed change, it is to the additional time commitment involved. I now have 5 teams because I've added one each of the past 2 years in order to fill leagues lacking enough owners. I'm also LA for 2 leagues. I just don't have the time for 5 more nights of drafting and the extra work involved. As you can see from my support of Rick's proposal to keep our current minor league rosters full throughout the year I'm not opposed to change itself. I agree with Geoff. I have no desire to make things more complicated and time consuming. Not all change is desirable. I don’t think this will attract new users, I think it will drive some of the existing users away.
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Post by shoelessjoe on Feb 2, 2024 20:11:01 GMT
Geoff: " I now have 5 teams because I've added one each of the past 2 years in order to fill leagues lacking enough owners... " And there's the rub. If Mock wasn't stuck in the '80s, this likely wouldn't be an issue. People waiting to join the group and absorbs some if not all the burden. I think you're seeing the potential through a narrow lens.
Bob & Co. "Not all change is desirable..." And the absence of willingness to address change for productive purposes is unilaterally undesirable. Nobody suggested converting the entire Mock universe to 50-man rosters, but Joe has displayed a willingness to expand the group's options and in my opinion the addition has been successful.
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Post by geoflin on Feb 2, 2024 20:26:55 GMT
Seems to me the major difficulty with attracting new owners hasn't been that we find possibilities who don't like the way our leagues work so stay away, it's that we don't find people who are interested in the first place. We've tried asking friends, we've posted messages on various baseball sites, etc. If we were to find even one potential owner who said "I'd join if the following thing(s) were different" I'd be happy to consider making the necessary changes. How do you propose that we find potential new owners in the first place?
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Post by pirate on Feb 2, 2024 22:23:26 GMT
Using the original idea about, expansion of the minor league rosters, I would like to bring up my proposal from last year that the leagues go to the Ultra Format i.e. using reserve rosters and getting rid of the hybrid system we now use. This is no longer the 80's. I been involved with leagues using the Ultra concept since it came out in the 90's and I feel that it offers a more enjoyable format to play. For those of you not familiar with the Ultra concept it means that after our normal auction draft (or in the case of the Gibson League snake draft) we hold an NFL style draft to acquire players for a reserve list. The original Ultra concept called for a reserve roster of 17 players but I've found that a reserve roster of 10-12 players works best. Though it may not seem like it there are still decent players who would remain in the free agent pool. Free agents would be acquired strictly using the bidding process. Bidding would take place on a weekly basis usually using a Sunday deadline. In other words teams could place bids at any time during the week but they would only resolve on Sundays. When a player is acquired via the bidding process he would be required to drop a player from his roster. Waivers would also be done on a weekly basis. Like bids waiver claims would resolve on the same day as the bids. Active players who are dropped by their teams would appear on the waiver list for 1 week. A team could claim multiple players off of the waiver list but could only acquire 1 of them. The addition of a player off the waiver list would also result in a player being dropped from the team acquiring the waived player. During the reserve draft teams could draft any player who is not on the roster of the opposite league (for those in an AL or NL only league). If a person wants to draft all minor leaguers they could though I wouldn't advise it. There are also restrictions on which players can be dropped to acquire a free agent, so that comes into play. I strongly urge owners to consider this format as I truly believe it adds to the fun of playing.
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Post by geoflin on Feb 3, 2024 12:45:58 GMT
I have moved the above posts to this new thread. I would encourage any of you - George, Joe, Pirate, whoever else - if you have an idea for a new kind of league and think there is a way to recruit new members to play, start recruiting. Refine your ideas for new rules and let's move forward to create new leagues. Put up a post here and recruit current members to a new league. We began Gibson a few years ago, I don't see any reason why we couldn't start other new leagues based on the ideas described above. Any current members interested in joining could do so. I think this would have a much greater chance of success than trying to radically change the rules for our existing leagues. If this is what it takes to bring us into the future let's begin now. I would be happy to be of any help to make this happen.
One other way to think about doing this would be to change one of our leagues by using some of the proposed new rules assuming enough of the current owners agree. Owners who don't wish to change could move to an open team in another league, we seem to have no shortage of them recently and we have also have some owners with more teams than they would like (myself and Joe that I know of for sure) who would give up a team if there were a new owner available.
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Post by shoelessjoe on Feb 3, 2024 18:44:01 GMT
Geoff: Again, "... a way to recruit new members..." is to present a more contemporary format that embraces the deep interest in prospects. There is an obvious reason that The Athletic, Fangraphs and site like Prospects 1500, Imaginary Wall and Prospects Live are thriving; a reason that FanTrax has siphoned longtime members from Yahoo, ESPN and CBS games. Volumes of information on prospects ... not just top 100, but top 500 and 1500; as many as 30 or more from each MLB franchise, metrics that project the potential production of minor leaguers if they reach the big league. That requires a commitment on each site/publication that wouldn't be cost effective if they didn't see a strong return on their investments.
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Post by geoflin on Feb 3, 2024 18:55:34 GMT
Ed, I'm not sure what you want me to do. You criticize me for opposing change so I start a thread suggesting change. What ideas do you have for Mocksports and how do you propose to implement them? Do you want to start a new league? If so, what changes should it incorporate? Where do you suggest we look for new recruits beyond existing owners? You made some general statements above. Be more specific. What do you want me/us to do?
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Post by joeizzo on Feb 3, 2024 21:05:22 GMT
Guys,
Throwing in my 2 cents. As Ed said, I not opposed to trying something new like the Gibson mixed league. If we can agree on one new league type to try this year, I would support it. I would ask that one of you idea guys volunteers to be the new league's LA since you would be familiar with the new format assuming you are suggesting we adopt something existing like Ultra or a Dynasty format.
Joe
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Post by jumpngeorge on Feb 8, 2024 23:48:11 GMT
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Post by pirate on Feb 11, 2024 21:35:35 GMT
I'm not sure where to begin. The Ultra concept began in the early 90's and I've been playing it ever since. Have any of you actually played in an Ultra League? Reading the comments makes me wonder how many of you have even paid any attention to the method. This is a tried and true concept. Since we use FAAB it's obvious that some of the ideas are used but I can't understand the lack of interest in a reserve roster. It opens up so many possibilities. It combines both the drafting of actual reserve players and minor leaguers. It allows owners to adjust their rosters, to bid on players in the free agent pool, includes an actual weekly waiver list where players are claimed, not bid on, and overall simplifies the process. No longer do you have to worry about when a player comes up or is cut and what is the window to bid on him. The mechanics are pretty straight forward. An owner can move players up or down on his roster on a daily basis. Some owners like to move pitchers around to take advantage of match ups. No free agent is tied to anyone thus if you don't have to worry about making a decision between 2 players that you would like to keep as in our method. I found the suggestion to increase the minor league rosters to 10 just a bad idea. In the Ultra concept you can draft 10 minor league players if you want but since you can't use them to acquire free agents your team would be hurting. I've played in a league with a large reserve roster, but no free agent acquisitions allowed, and it's passable but leaves something to be desired. You all seem to be a good group of guys and I don't mind playing under these rules if I have to but I really think the leagues need to be updated.
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Post by geoflin on Feb 11, 2024 22:53:09 GMT
Pirate - it is just not realistic to expect that we are going to change the entire structure of 7 leagues here, especially with 5 weeks to go before the drafts. As you mentioned a lot of our members want to keep things the way they are. But you make some good points. Why don't you take Joe's suggestion above and start an Ultra league here. Hopefully some of our members will join and give it a try and maybe you can bring in others you know. That opens the door to more similar leagues or change in our current leagues for the future.
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